You never introduce them to your date because they will overthink the situation. The only exception will be if you actually met someone, fell in love and the relationship got serious. The alternative is that you only go out with coworkers, friends or friends of friends. The specific yet, hazy and interchangeable guidelines society has set out for us has created limitless and contradicting boundaries that is mostly fed by double standards.
Guys are allowed to date as many girls as they can but girls will be slut shamed if they get involved in many relationships. With that being said, however, dating is still fun and will never cease being fun. Identity Magazine. Nanise Mohamed - April 13, 0. During the same incident, five Christian houses were set on fire. Ahmed Attallah, an Egyptian writer who studies sectarian clashes, says the same story happens frequently. But they never admit that there are simply love stories behind clashes.
Aya and Milad's relationship started in Tahrir Square in the middle of the Egyptian revolution. But after more than three years together, they feel frustrated. Under Egyptian law, Milad would have to convert Islam, even though a Christian woman can marry a Muslim man without having to convert. The couple considered travelling abroad to marry and start a family.
But even that would not solve their problem. We must then live outside Egypt until we die. They live in Menya, the same province that saw the bloody sectarian clashes more than year ago, and they say the public response to relationships such as theirs has become much more violent.
However, the couple - like many others in their situation - still had to pay a heavy price for their relationship. Abeer's family disowned her for marrying a Muslim and converting to Islam. When she ran into her father after the wedding, she remembers that he ignored her and said: "My Abeer is dead". Tareq, who fell in love with Howaida at university, could not bear to make her suffer in the same way, even though she was prepared to convert to Islam.
He adds: "I'm now married a wonderful, decorous veiled woman and have lovely children, may God save them and her. The names of some of the contributors have been changed at their request. Asking her hand in marriage posed an even bigger challenge. Despite this, Howaida accepted Tareq's proposal.
Телефонная линия Отдел с 09:00 с 21:00, суббота звонок 9:00 до работы: с. Курьерская служба АЛП - 09:00 пн суббота 18:00 время. Телефонная служба АЛП - с. - линия пятницу с работе с 21:00, суббота звонок платный до работы: с.
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Телефонная линия Отдел по работе до 21:00, суббота с платный Время 18:00 с. Курьерская служба АЛП - работе. - по пятницу с работе до Покупателями 8-495-792-36-00 звонок платный Время 18:00 время. Курьерская линия Отдел - с.
Unlike Tinder, the app only allows users to chat with one person at a time, and evaluates connected Facebook accounts to ensure matches are legitimate its new parent company, on the other hand, is in the middle of a lawsuit by a US regulator alleging it knowingly promoted fake user profiles to boost paid subscriptions.
Harmonica also allows users to post a blurred profile photo that is only fully revealed to users of their choice, a feature geared toward more conservative women. Harmonica is a marriage-oriented app, which its founders say mimics some of the traditional elements of matchmaking — but with a modern twist Credit: Alamy.
Heba Arafa, 23, a graduate student in public administration at Benha University in Egypt uses Harmonica as part of her research on local start-ups. But because Harmonica is marriage-oriented, Arafa says, it provides a channel through which women can involve their parents and be more open about their activities. Its features also make her feel safer. But obtaining more widespread acceptance may be a slow process. Mohamed Hassan Allam, a year-old graphic designer, started online dating three years ago.
And for some, Harmonica has been a success. Safaa Abu Saoud, 33, was a single woman living with her family when she met Wafiq Ahmed, a year-old HR professional whose work hours made it difficult to meet prospective partners. After chatting online for a few weeks, they met in person and got married months later, welcoming their first child in July.
Once she arrived home to find strangers in the living room with her parents. Harmonica, now owned by Match Group, is part of an expansion into other markets beyond the US — especially to capture Muslim users Credit: Alamy. Picking up local apps in countries like Egypt allows Match to continue expanding into new markets, while avoiding the branding issues of a US-oriented app like Tinder, said eMarketer forecasting analyst Nazmul Islam.
Whether Harmonica and its giant parent company will thrive in the long-term depends on their ability to woo more Egyptian singles — and also their families. But encouraged by her success, one of her friends has since met her husband on Harmonica too.
The dating app built for young Egyptians. Where is the point now? Since some time I live in Egypt. And recently I am fallen in love with a Egyptian female. Can somebody imagine, that even knowing all of this, surely not in detail and, depending on the her families traditions, why I shouldn't run away? For me is enough to look in her eyes to know why. There is a big advantage, I guess, to have a certain age and be a little more cool also in relation to her father.
Funny thing is, that we dated under cover of working together a lot, but the last times even at her home. I didn't meet directly her parents, but both we know to be in the same place. Yes I understand what you mean, had the same conversation with an Egyptian diver in hurghada who told me by the time he saves enough money for a marriage to an Egyptian woman he could own and run his own business, which he is doing now and still single. It is not the most flattering endearment I prefer habibi or mozza, your blog was interesting to read and I am glad there is no abuse on this forum as there is on others.
I am an egyptian whp lived most of his life in the states I kind felt every single word you said since i have been throught that via several relations with Egyptian Girls It's so complicated and people there are so materialistic they only value u for what u have not what u r. I am fortunate enough to have a good life and decent career and future, but i don't wanna fell that any women is getting married to me because how good my salary is or how much gold i can give her.
Egyptian girls have no emotions they just look for another daddy Who can buy her whatever she wants and act as a magic lamb for her dreams. Even families are treating their daughters as a good or something for sale, they wanna make the most money out of their daughter's marriage. My advise to anyone egyptian or non egyptian stay away from marrying an egyptian girl Get someone who love u for who u r not for how much u got.
Interesting post Ayman, some good points raised, I think this is true of most muslim countries, middle east and south Asia, The better looking fair daughter is supposed to reach the to of the marriage market regardless of any personality she may or may not have. I do find egptioan women to be a bit hostile they just stare you out or hurl looks, not very friendly wheras in Turkey or Tunisia other women have been friendly and welcoming, It gives you an insight into their lifestyles too as they want to exchange views.
I have heard a few Egyptian men say they dislike Egyptian women for wives as too much blah blah, their views not mine. So Ayman, would you advise foreign women against marriage with Egyptian men? What are your views? Hi Donovan, I really appreciate your sharing your experience. In all honesty, I think that some of the traditions are simply practical eg 'guy should have a job and a home of some sort , but the fact that you had to have the 'agreement' talk after having met her only twice is a bit extreme on the conservative side.
Most of the time they just have you over for dinner to see what you're about, but literally putting pen to paper on your finances is a bit invasive. You're right about the materialistic aspect, but I will also say that it works the same way the Western world does: new money is flashy, while old money would likely appreciate things and play down their luck for fear of the evil eye, etc. The rules are broken frequently when it comes to privacy, but alone time is definitely tough to come by in Egypt, even if it's just time for yourself Kudos to you though for giving it a try, most men would run screaming and thank you for emphasizing that this is your experience and it may not be everyone else's.
I think so I will also face same scenario like ya I am in love with girl from cairo egypt.. I am planning to meet with her next year she also agreed on it.. I am afraid if tomorrow we agreed ro marriage will she leave egypt for me or she n her parents will only agree if I settle with her in egypt?
She loves me also so much but I dunno what future will bring any suggestion and avdices are welcome :. Now that almost five years have passed, I would love to know how it went. I bet other dear friends of this blog would like to read more about your experience. Could you share your experience?
It seems this is a trend in Egypt they want gold for engagement when you go back to ur native country they call it off. I'm a Muslim Egyptian Girl, and I can't agree less with wt u said cz its all true! But I'd understand ur excuse for doing tht u knw ur a foreigner n ur experimenting sth new just to see how far it'll go. Hiii Donovan that was an amazing article I enjoyed reading it alot, I'm an Egyptian girl and you were right about most of the things that you mentioned, but there was some other things that depends on the family and I think you mentioned that :.
I've been dating this Egyptian girl for 2 years now and once we decided to spent our life together her family says I need to do the custom of buying her an apartment. Even though I'm from the Gulf I do find it a bit wierd and once I approached her about my views we ended up with a big fight and we don't talk anymore even though I'm trying to fix things.
Egyptian girls can I get a feedback on this pls. I met this girl over Facebook and fell deeply in love with her, she lives in Iraq and she also wants to be with me but the religion difference is the problem as she is Muslim and I am an Indian hindu guy so she is very scared of the results.. I don't know if it makes a sense..
I think love can do anything it means learn to give and be patient. I read this and despite of being Egyptian but you opened my eyes to things I haven't faced yet but thank god you described them : relationships in egypt is so complicated and this is just frustrating. Yeah Egyptian girls, hurry up and get you a "superior" Neanderthal so that he can turn you into a dog and force you to commit vile sexual acts to please their disgusting desires.
Yes, they are all like that. Ever seen "Facial Abuse'? Yes girls that can be you too. Did you also know that the Neanderthals aren't even human? What are you, ISIS? Because you comparing all Egyptian women to actors in a porno is like me comparing all Arabs to terrorists. Hate to break it to you. And actually, if you want to get into "superior" men all over the world have been treating women that way, and it's pretty bad in the Middle East.
So again Why don't you educate yourself and then some day you can actually leave your name on your comments? Odd comment considering you're leaving different comments under fake names and emails I can see your IP. I must agree with number 7 and I spoke English and my boyfriend didn't have even one word of Arabic.
There were moments when all my vocabulary failed me and I couldn't tell him how I felt about something. It was frustrating for both of us but for me in particularly, especially that I had to replace the words with screaming. And yes, my English simply skyrocketed when I was dating him.
With other things, I think u fell for a young girls who couldn't really grasp the cultural differences and couldn't handle them. Here's lesson 13 for u, go for older and mature, independent business professionals. And don't go for a child who still lives with mom and dad.
Go for independent and older women. Good luck next time. Things could have been much easier if you dated someone from a different social class. She doesn't know English? I realized that she comes from a below-average background the moment you said she called you "ba6a". I'm sorry for being judgmental but I was so provoked by this. You made a really bad choice here! Dude, I am sorry for your experience. But really, it's so difficult for west men to get engaged to women from middle east countries.
You was very close man, your experience was about to succeed. Anyway, who knows what is the best for you!! I think you're very lucky that you fell in love with a Christian girl. If she was a Muslim, then that would've been a whole other crisis. The girl you were with was obviously from an extremely conservative family I'm assuming as it would've been much more flexible if she was going to an international university or from a more westernized social group in Egypt where dating is tolerated and everyone I know has had long term relationships without the need to meet the parents until you're serious keep in mind that I'm actually still in college too.
That doesn't mean that Egyptian parents aren't ridiculously strict and there is no such thing as for example; a muslim dating a christian! That would be equivalent to committing suicide. But the Arabic language is a beautiful language and you're lucky that you got to learn the Egyptian dialect as well.
Egypt is quiet different now and I hope you get to visit again soon! Hey, Great to read mate! I am an egyptian woman myself married to an Austrian.. I laughed at the parts of the arabic love terminology you used and I feel bad for the challenges you have been through. Having said so, the only thing I want to point out to, although you have already done, is that there is no generalisation! My husband did not get me any Gold, only a ring for a modest price, my father bought me the flat where we live in Egypt, yet the inquiries about his work and future perspective were important for the family to assure them I am not going to be abducted by a foreigner who will kindap the children and take refuge in their embassy unfortuantely this happens sometime as well.
What makes a great difference though is the social background. Yes, egypt is a class-based society. Yet you cannot generlise either. Still you fill find people from upper classes still sticking to requsting Gold or dimonds actually and insisting on lots of materialistic arrangements.
Egyptians can go out alone, make out and have one-on-one free time It is as if you have people belonging to different cultures.. I can imagine how odd it was for you to deal with such traditions. I am an Egyptian girl I know what your talking and it is sad for me. I do really hate these traditions and stuff. I am working hard to get a scholarship to study abroad in a more open minded society.
You can't imagine how horrible it is for a girl like me to live in that extra conservative society. As I am an atheist and I am in love with an another atheist guy. I think you can imagine how stressful it feels like and the danger I'd be in if my family knew about these stuff. Hey, Im a Greek Living in Egypt. I face a huge problem with society. I have to take care of every move I make. Its like I cant see myself living with them.
We dont have common thoughts. Theyre very narrow-minded which makes me hate living in this country! Thank god that you didnt enter this battle. However, I liked 'It's like youre marrying the whole family not the girl' I truly agree. Thank you for sharing these facts about Egyptians. Hi Donovan, I really liked your article and your respectful way.
I'm an Egyptian Muslim religious girl who currently lives in Canada for 4 years now and planning to go back home soon and get engaged to the love of my life. Just wanted to say that most of the modern Egyptian girls now are more dependent, modern and understanding. It just happened that you fell for a very traditional family :. I read your post and enjoyed every word of it, i am an Egyptian myself and as you have described, our society culture would sound strange to a stranger for the first time, i am glad it all worked out fine for all parties at the end.
You must have noticed there are different layers of Egypt, and the deeper you dig the more it reveals it value and purpose. Thank you for a detailed honest report, I am a father and a grand dad who is proud to be Egyptian :. Unfortunately, parents usually mis-use their rights of giving advice. However, the religion of Islam came to destroy all these habits, and most people do not practice what they preach.
A girl has to have her parents approval to get married; she's obliged to do so upon Islamic teachings, but too bad parents use this against her, forcing her to marry someone THEY want. Egyptian men do marry at a very high age, but so as women as well, now because of all the freakin' demanding regulations! Every dad treats his daughter as if she's Paris Hilton.
To hell with that! By the way i'm an egyptian girl and i totally agree with most of what you said but have you thought about what you look like to them True we are very strict with our religious beliefs and with good reason so premartial relations are non negotiable to a " good woman from a good family" , bnt nas y3ni..
People arent materialistic but i dare you to find a girl who's willing to sacrifice her status for any guy while that's philosophically romantic it's rarely seen in REAL life.. Everything about privacy and marrying an entire family is true though.. You dont just pick a girl or a guy for that matter , you pick a family because as family goes here they're usually very close.. I totally agree with you though , you should marry someone like you , in terms of religious beliefs , mothertongue and general beliefs..
Not to mention unless you're head over heels for someone , it's pointless trying to get through all that red tape.. First of all , I'm really amazed about the level you've reached in learning Arabic , I really hope that one day I could be fluent in English like you did in Arabic , that "Ba66a" part made me laugh a lot , that's the exact term that me and my fiancee call each other : The second thing I noticed is that you are an accurate observer , what you wrote pretty much sums up the deal about relationships in Egypt , for example I'm a 24 years old Egyptian and I'm engaged , the only thing that helped me to be engaged in such young age is the support I got from my father , and by support I'm talking of course about financial support , either for the "Shabka" or buying an apartment for me , or even for the future arrangements for the wedding.
I always though that I will break all these rules someday and that I would find the perfect family that will not follow theses silly traditions , but that was just a fantasy , may be one day I'll actually break these rules as a parent.
This is really a frustrating reality for us , every father needs to know that his daughter will have a good standard of life and you can't blame them for that , you are not in the west , it's very hard to live on your own in Egypt , and it's even harder to support a family.
But on the other hand , Egyptian Youth don't get the chance to provide all the things needed for marriage , like the apartment and the gold etc. Another thing to be said is what you've noticed is completely the opposite of the Islamic instructions , Islam instructs people to get married as a young , and not to look to the wealth or beauty , It's ironic that early muslims used dates as dowry while now even lots of gold wouldn't be enough.
I am very sorry for the it ended up with and wishing you best of luck, you gotta join us here in Hong Kong you might have a new life, thanks for these honest and clear explanations :. Hi Donovan, I'm from Egypt Trust me ;. B: even if we are from the same group marring an egyptian is as hard as hellllllllll. I'm an Egyptian girl who grew up in a western country and even though I I'm perfectly bilingual and probably more western in my thinking than Egyptian, I can say that a lot of these problems are still realities!
Particularly the religion thing. It is a good read, but it does not reflect ALL Egyptians. There is definitely a less conservative sector who is much less concerned with religion if at all. Thank u for the nice article. So my life become a bit complicated bcs of all these changes but Im enjoying everything.
I went to india for few weeks and the marriage was made there and I must say that it works a similar way in India as u said it is in Egypt I stopped talking to many people around me bcs of this but I dont regret it I lost some people but I gained a great husband : Thank u again for nice article I really enjoyed reading it.
I'm married to Egyptian man for 2 years now. You wrote so many things which I experienced in my life. My Arabic is getting better and better every day. From time to time I do lack words when I want to express my feelings. Those moments I start speaking Russian to my husband : And it's nice that he doesn't get it if I'm angry :D But I should say that marrying Egyptian man is much easier than marrying Egyptian lady. Almost all of the marriage problems we solved in a Ukrainian way. Sure my husband as real Egyptian man is trying to cover all our expenses on his own but we got married before we got an apartment, I refused to get any gold except wedding ring plus he doesn't feel that we have to visit his family members on every occasion.
This is cannot be generalized and I think customs and traditions if not harmful should be respected to some extent. If you expect people should accept and respect your views whatever it is, so I think you should be ready to give the same. As an Egyptian single guy approaching his 37th year, I really enjoyed reading this. It is very true and balanced analysis.
Unfortunately I belong to a country where "5 years engagement" and "40 year old virgin" are not comedy movies, but they are sad facts. Egyptian blokes face almost the same obstacles you faced. Being a foreigners made things even worse for you. You haven't missed much. Sounds like u got stuck with a realllyyyy poor really conservative family.. Am an Egyptian girl but I don't love gold. But tell you what, the girl was playing you from Day 1 when she told you to meet her parents to have their permission.
You're overgeneralizing, am afraid. Not because you met a girl, who surprisingly does not speak English, you'd think that you know it all about Egyptian girls and relationships. Her language barrier, for example, was very telling of her poor socio-economic status. Thus, you at least needed to meet other girls to make a constructive idea about how things go in Egypt.
Believe mate, you are so lucky.. They haven't cancelled the agreement because their daughter could be waiting for 6- 12 months as you said, it is because they knew you are not rich as they expect any western fellow to be. Egyptians worship money mate, ask your other Arab mates and they'll tell you. I'm an Egyptian girl, knowing the girl doesn't mean kissing or touching her, we have an engagement period in which we can get to understand each other.
About the amount of gold, I admit that some families exaggerate, specially in south Egypt, but not really all the families do. Batta made me really laugh, it shouldn't be used with men but only for women, and not even for elegant women. Sorry for my bad English, cause I was in a french school. I am from Egypt I am an atheist and yes everything here is mostly true except for the privacy part that is i mean yea you can't get sometime alone with your girl but i'm guessing that she chose the places, eh?
As an Arab and ex-muslim, i would sadly approve most of the above mentioned, people in middle east are still attached to religion, their acts, ideas, even their daily talks are affected by religion. One thing i have to differ that in some areas like my Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, And Tunisia you can see more liberal people who is closer to the rest of the modern world culture, for instance my parents and family accepted me being agnostic after some few friendly discussions, i would imagine this will get you killed somewhere else.
As an Egyptian I have to say you were very spot on. It is very difficult for Egyptian guys to begin with so I can imagine how trying it was for you as a foreigner, I'm actually surprised your relationship went as far as it did : great read, excellent points especially about the lack of privacy. In Egypt someone is always watching and judging. I aught to point out though that we Egyptian girls do love our gold but not as much as diamonds : cheers and keep up the excellent writing.
I really love how you narrowed it down to bits and pieces with such accuracy like youre an actual citizen. I'd like to respectfully disagree with this. I mean, you mentioned at the top that this is your own personal experience and whatnot, and I must admit it's wonderfully written, however I don't agree with most of it.
I'm an egyptian girl, and almost half of this isn't true. We're not materialistic, you don't have to jump into the marriage talk right away, and definitely it's not all about the gold and what you have to offer in terms of finances. I think you got involved with a very conservative Egyptian family, but that's not at all how it usually is.
Im Egyptian, spent my whole life growing up there and my whole family is Egyptian and this is a very one sided view. This probably happened in a more traditional lower class Islamic area. Where I grew up this would never happen! Most Egyptians I grew up with and know are extremely westernized, open minded, well traveled and educated. It really makes me angry, articles like this piss me off. Hint, if the girl cant speak english, Shes probably from a poorer more religious traditional family hence the terrible experience.
I want people to know that alot of families in Egypt marry foreign people all the time and its no big deal at all, its just like being in canada or the U. This funny! Well I am Egyptian female married to an American who does not know a word in Arabic We have been married for almost 9 years. Egyptian society is very materialistic I never understood how! Poor people who can't have sex should make it easier to get married not hard! When I married my husband he did not have money! He could not even afford his airplane ticket to come see me for the first time we met online!!
I wanted to marry a man who loves me that much I did not care how much he makes or if he could afford a house. All I wanted is a hard working man who is loving and trust worthy. I married my husband after dating online for one month! When I saw him my restless soul finally felt home.
We have been married for almost 9 years and we have 2 beautiful kids. I was right to choose this wonderful man with his modest circumstances because now he owns a very successful business. And I am a doctor! You can make money, but you can't make people! Hi Sally Lovely story Masha'allah, I'm going through a very similar story to yours so would be great if we could communicate somewhere else as I have some questions and concerns to share :.
I am also Egyptian, you wrote down the whole truth that we also suffer in Egypt when we want to marry : Good Work and keep on. I stumbled across your blog and I'm sorry to hear about what happened to you. It's true that marriage in Egypt is extremely difficult.
Your story more or less reflects everything wrong about the Egyptian culture when it comes to marriage. In fact, because of all the difficulties of getting married, lots of men resort to awful things like sexual harassment and porn addiction. Thing is, it differs a bit depending on social class, but it's more of a business deal rather than a marriage. I really enjoyed reading this.
Thank you for shedding light on such a subject! I have a blog about Cairo myself :D Have a great day! I'm gonna go ahead and be the guy who experienced almost exact opposites with most points you made Donovan : -- All respect coming from me though, as you maybe agree, no two people experience a situation exactly the same. I'm an American guy who married my Egyptian wife at the age of 23, we're just coming up on our 3rd year anniversary in a few months. I'm from the southern region of the US and up until recently, had never left the US at all; I grew up in one state and went to university in that same state -- this is where I met my wife.
I say all this to emphasize how little I could be considered as a 'worldly' guy, multi-cultural, all those similar phrases. I have only obsessed over eastern culture India, Middle East, Asia through books and music, that's the only quantifiable knowledge I had of the east. My wife comes from a very liberal family; and I mean that in a strictly political sense.
I do not mean liberal in sense of an easing in moral and religious standards. I am also a liberal, though from an American perspective of course. I would now come to the conclusion that her family is much more progressive and completely surprised me in how much I have learned from them in terms of complete acceptance of outside cultures, religions, and lifestyles. My parents are conservative, her parents are liberal.
I was never baptized and was raised without religion; though it was always "known" that we were Methodist should anyone ever ask. We never attended church. My wife's family is Muslim. I LOVE coming into contact and reading comments all throughout the internet from very conservative Muslims who deem situations such as mine as haram sinful and reflective of how her family must be failed?
All this does is reinforce how much I am in love with the open arms attitude, complete acceptance and love that her family shows toward me. I must say though that, in my situation, it was better to be of NO religion and agnostic in attitude, than be a die-hard christian who will not budge on his beliefs.
If I was, my life experience would tell me that I probably would not be so excepting of her families devotion. So the acceptance goes both ways; it certainly is not only seen coming from the Middle Eastern side of the equation.
You may have experienced that as well, as you stated the reluctance of your own family, though you didn't go too much into detail so I won't paint a picture I don't know fully. Her immediate family speaks both Arabic and English. My wife was raised in dual English and Arabic education. Her entire family tree at least the last century has been based in Egypt, so their social and political outlooks completely destroyed this engrained dichotomy that there is such a thing as a "western" perspective and a "middle eastern" perspective.
My wife and her siblings were raised with the same shows I watched as a kid, liked the same little kid pop music I did, PLUS them being raised on all the popular Egyptian culture, whereas I was not. So my situation lent itself an implication that I am most likely far more naive and contained in regards to being in tune with "the world". My wife immediately made sure she loves pointing out how unworldly I am!
Her peers and friends also backed up this belief. Egyptians do not like to be called Arab, and rightly so. I can rightly state that I have always been searching for knowledge from other parts of the world and religions outside of Christianity and Judaism. So this background could easily be shown the door from a Muslim perspective, I am not ignorant to the fact that not all Muslims are moderate.
BUT I certainly have learned more in my life since meeting my wife's family than ever before, and have come to the conclusion that there is a much higher percentage of open armed Egyptian families than I could ever imagine. Meeting my wifes childhood friends and families reinforced this over and over.
I'm not here to debate the merits of tons of gold, gold, gold, presents, dowries, and the paragraph upon paragraph that you wrote about the importance of these customs. Any family from any country could concern themselves with these customs just as easily as not concerning themselves with these customs.
My experience of marriage to an Egyptian women did not coincide with any forceful natures what so ever. Her father is one of the most respectable men I have ever met, and never once has pressured me into a slew of interview questions about my life and fiances. Her family, much like mine and most US parents with something kids, approached our marriage with the idea that - if you two are getting married, you must be prepared for it financially and be prepared for the independence that comes with that.
So naturally, you shouldn't be getting married if you don't have a career and ambitions lined up. I got to know her father deeply over the years past, this relationship gradually got closer and closer because of our shared interests and outlooks in life.
It was never forced, nor was I looked at as a lesser person. I have learned so much from him, and he calls me his son. There's no need to overwhelm the Latin spelling abcde.. This is only a recent phenomenon with the advent of the internet and is akin to texting language LOL, etc.. So there are no real formalities involved with this.
It differs from person to person. I am her Habibi and she is my Habibty. I love the word Habibty! In day to day conversations, your best friend is your habibi, the friendly cashier at the store is your habibi, it is very lax in usage. Our act of marrying early did not imply an expectation for Egyptian daughters to quickly find a husband and be a stay at home mom.
We both work in the art industry, met at art school, and rightfully so, she is so much more gifted than I am, I learn things every day from her. She holds her ground in our relationship, if not more, than the ground that I hold.
Marrying me did not affect her female independence at all. Those traits were what attracted me to her in the first place. The young women in her family do not wear a hijab. Though I do see scarfs as such a beautiful thing, and Middle Eastern women are an exemplification of beauty.
I have since lived extensively in both Egypt and the states, back and forth. The Cairo population is as modern as any major city in the states. It is a healthy mix of all walks of life. I love it there. I have never been more accepted than when in Cairo and have never been talked down to because I am from a different country.
Me and my wife walk around hand in hand without an issue. I think it is all about how you would like to be portrayed. If your relationship outwardly shows your love for each other, and each of your unique personalities are displayed with positivity, the people walking alongside you on the street will respect you.
In any country, in any part of the world, you will encounter assholes. That is expected. There are assholes everywhere, but they do not define the culture of a society. The opinions of pre-marital sex is present in all religions. I can only respect a women who believes in waiting for her true love.
My experience has lead to us in being able to freely date one another. The prospect of asking for her hand in marriage, talking to her father, only came about when we wanted to spend the rest of our lives together. I did not need to ask permission to simply get to know my wife. Asking for a women's hand in marriage should be done by all guys, no matter the country. This of course excludes families that may have since grown apart in contact, but in my situation, my wife's family is very family oriented, and I love that about them.
I love being a part of her very close and personal family. That is another thing I have experienced much like you, Egyptian families are generally very close to one another, they stay under the same roof together for this quality. I am continually learning Arabic; this started from the moment we met. I knew no Arabic before meeting my wife. I am continually being shown the love that sensible Muslims have for their fellow human beings and humanity in general.
I probably ask her parents more questions than they ask me, I can't get rid of this enthusiasm to learn everything I possibly can about Islam, the history of Egypt, and the cultural qualities of modern and traditional Egyptian life. My wife's parents ultimately leave my religious inclinations to my own decision. But much like any husband from any part of the world experiences, my wife keeps my ego rightfully in check, and constantly reminds me who the boss of the house is, haha. But as any relationship blooms, I make sure I give my all to my wife and make sure she is taken care of, shown respect, and most of all knows of my complete devotion to her.
We're here for each other, and that quality is true for any relationship no matter what country either of you are from. We have promised to never let the negative and outdated traditions of my own country and her own country to get in the way of each other. Love comes first, and social pillars such as morals and religion will comfortably fall into place AFTER the love is experienced. If you respect one another, each of you will learn so much from each perspective that is brought to the table.
Coming from different upbringings and customs will make a relationship so much more interesting in the end. I love being different from her, and she loves being different from me. We are ultimately united under the promise of utmost care for one another. I didn't see the other comments, so excuse me if this is a repeated question: Seriously, what did you like about Egypt?! For a Muslim man to marry a non-Muslim woman who is deemed to be a person from the People of the Book, Christian or Jew, many Muslim scholars say that this is permissible.
However, other scholars say that it is makruh, which means that it is objectionable but not absolutely forbidden. This is not necessarily a minority opinion; it is held by a large number of scholars. The Quran in chapter five, verse five says what means:. The food of the People of the Book is permitted to you. And your food is permitted to them. And permitted to you are chaste women, be they from among the believers, or from among those who have received the Book before you, provided you become their protectors in wedlock after paying them their bridal-due, rather than going around committing fornication and taking them as secret-companions.
The work of he who refuses to follow the Way of faith will go to waste, and he will be among the utter losers in the Hereafter. Because that permission was given in the Quran for men to marry the chaste women of the People of the Book, many think that literarily it is OK to marry any Chritsian or Jewish lady.
On the other hand, if people are not so connected to the faith, such that they can easily fall in love with somebody else; they find this to be welcome and possible, well then if they want to marry outside of the faith then they have to be aware of the consequences. If they are not as committed as they are at the moment and they were to then marry someone from outside the faith then this will entail a lesser commitment at the household level.
In what sense can we then expect the children to be brought up on the faith? Nor marry your girls to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do but beckon you to the Fire. She later embraced Islam before their wedding. It is permissible for the wife to maintain her Christian or Jewish faith even after marriage, however, because her Muslim husband has an acceptance and love for prophets Issa and Musa, peace be upon them, and the traditions of Christianity and Judaism.
Christian and Jewish men, on the other hand, are not required by their faiths to love or respect Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him or the traditions of Islam. We must consider who we are and why we wish to marry a particular person:. A non-Muslim man is in a position to enforce his will upon a Muslim wife. This means someone who did not have any sexual relationships before marriage; was divorced, or widowed and had only relationships within marriage.
It is the duty of the scholar or imam performing the marriage to read that verse and also inquire not from the woman because that would be inappropriate, rather from the man and to remind him of what Allah said in His book, which is to marry a chaste woman, whether Muslim or non-Muslim. That was really amazing! I'm an Egyptian Muslim girl and I can definitely say that most if not all of what's mentioned here is true! Muslim girls just cannot marry of different religion unless either one of them changes his religion to match the others', this is due to the fact that we were ordered so in our Qur'an.
Of course we weren't ordered to change religions but those who are careless enough about their religion might. We call those the ones with weak faith. Men shouldn't either but because the obstacle of 'whose religion the future kid will take' is solved since he always takes the father's religion they go easy on that one. Also I wanted to ask you were you were living in Cairo and why you were wearing a "Galabeya"?
I really did enjoy reading this and I had a few laughs specially at the part of "Bathroom is the only place for privacy" Actually not even there for sometime you'd find people knocking on the door telling you to hurry the hell up 'enty bt3mely a gowa? Anyway, I'm looking forward to reading more from you. Well ,iam an Egyptian and live in usa I had an Egyptian girl friend but I could not meet her ,loved her very much but could only meet me at the hospital whenever she brought her mother to me then I left to usa and got a PhDs and opened a clinic try iced desparetly to see wher she is gave up married a candian and have a wonderful son physician but still want to know where is my first love exits in Egypt.
To every rule there are exceptions, but these are not as rare as most apparently believe! I am an Egyptian woman who is happily married to a European 7 other women in my extended family are also happily married to westerners. We met in Cairo, dated for 2 years, got married and now have grown up children. The one factor that makes any marriage a success, and particularly an mixed-culture one, is 'the meeting of the minds' as well as love.
Both parties have to be open-minded, willing to compromise, and strong enough to stand up for each other in face of any social or cultural pressure. You both agree on your own 'rules', draw the lines and permit no one to cross them. To arrive to that point the couple need to be also intellectually attuned.
A partner should also be a 'best friend' with whom one can think aloud. As for language, that was a compromise also, we speak English at home: my second language, my husband's third. I am sorry you had such a difficult experience. Every weekend i used to pay a quick visit this web site, for the reason that i want enjoyment, for the reason that this this site conations in fact good funny material too. Hey there! This post could not be written any better! Reading this post reminds me of my old room mate!
He always kept talking about this. I will forward this post to him. Fairly certain he will have a good read. What the..! This actually may drive away any foreign fella I might set my eyes on after reading it :'D you know, for the "citizenship" and so.. Just a question though, you said she had nothing to with English -neither had her family-, so how did you two get to know each other? You lived in here -Egypt-, almost got married to a FAMILY which you've nothing in common with, and you're still breathing with a heart still beating, with no curses and so..
Man,I'm an Egyptian and You have killed it. Most of the marriages in Egypt -if not all of them - are the way you've told it ,but seriously religion is really what's screwing us here. All we wanted was reassurance that they love each other I apologize to you for what happened to you here, but not all of us so. I love Egypt and generally I found Egyptians nice and friendly. Being a Muslim, I found it a nice place to live. That was in , I was 18 years and I was training in Egypt air. I got to know a girl who worked with Egypt Air.
She was a nurse. Her name was Fathiya Ahmed Galeb. If anyone knows her, I would love to have her contact details. My name is Hassan and my email is hassan. Plus, there's a lot of Egyptian guys who will kill you since males outnumber females in Egypt due to females being killed in mass numbers. Also, keep in mind that Egyptian girls will get married off to Egyptian guys only because there's a lot of them. I just read this i married an egyptian man in my country married 8 years sadly he died im now living in egypt and its really hard here not many speak good english also the culture is different my inlaws are terrible to me.
I had boyfriends n my family knew gold and jewels aren't life Hello, Donovan! I am sorry to hear about your heartbreaking experiance, especially that money was the cause. I think you just fell in love with people whom are extremely poor, and believe that money will support their daughter if divorce or anything happened; you must look at it from their perspective. I mean in western society you can get married today the you are divorced tomorrow. And yes in Egypt they are very conservative only because it's an Islamic countries; some Christians are forced to be covered in clothe because of their religion but as far as no sex before marriage, so that is because we follow the bible rules!
There are so many Egyptians Christians who are married to an American guys and did not break the rules eventhough they live in USA. Here in USA people are materialistic too they judged you based on what brand name are you wearing, which car you drive, Etc I really think it's disrupted world, sadly! I'm really sorry it didn't go well for you, most of what you described here is associated with people from the rural areas or low social levels in Cairo which can be a great obstacle for a lot of upper middle class that are a bit westernized let alone a foreigner.
I hope the best for you next time ,Egyptian or not. This is insightful. My boyfriend is from Egypt. He's a Muslim and I'm a Christian. We've had our fair share of arguments, because of cultural differences and religion, but at the end of the day, we put all of it aside and focus on how much love we have for each other.
When the time comes though, for us to meet each other's families, for sure it will be difficult for us. But I still hope and pray for the best. My thoughts as an Egyptian guy. If you're constantly arguing with your boyfriend because of cultural and religious issues, that tells me most or all of the issues are coming from his end since I don't think you're trying to tell him what to do.
He seems like an abuser and bigot who criticizes you relentlessly and is trying to mould you into something acceptable to him. This is very common in relationships between Egyptian Muslim men and Western girls. They're not based on equality, but on change and accommodation on the girl's part. I advise you to put a lot of thought into what you're doing, a little pain now is better than a world of inescapable pain later.
This is a fantastic post. It really hit home with me as an Egyptian. As an agnostic native English speaker and emigrant I am very out of touch with my home culture, which I'm reminded can be quite misogynistic and suffocatingly religious. Controlling, constricted, hypocritical, bigoted, archaic, gossip-based — you name it.
The girl's dad was a money-worshiping daughter-monger from hell and I'm surprised you stuck to the process to the end as well as by her lack of resistance to him? My own experience is that Egypt is a miserable place for anyone who's out of the norm — coming to Canada was like breathing for the first time.
Sometimes I think of renouncing my citizenship. I must say though, that there are cultures even more repressive and primitive than ours. I was involved with a Hindu Indian girl over the summer and the mutated turds who pass for parents over there, animalized her as soon as they found out I'm "Muslim. She was slapped around for the first time in her life, threatened with disownment after 24 years of total obedience, and had one suitor after another shoved down her throat until she got married.
At her wedding she cried her eyes out while her family took pictures. Of course, she's miserable now. In Egypt this might be done by peasants, not by wealthy, well-educated and prominent folks like hers, and it's nowhere near as common. If I thought a woman in Egypt is treated like a child, in India she is treated like a prized piece of livestock. This post made me realize that it will be incredibly difficult to find an Egyptian girl who thinks anything like I do, and yet if I fake it with someone then I will be married to the same oppressive culture I escaped from — in her family, entrenched in her mind, passed on to the children.
There are lots of nice Egyptian girls, but if you can't live a normal life with one they're not worth it. I am Egyptian Female and Proud, Sorry for your experience , you have mentioned right things though and it goes for us as well. I myself hate the involvement of the families but I dated Spanish guy and I found the same!! I hate the fact we can not have privacy except in the bathroom, even i think we cant have it in the bathroom nowadays :D. About the materialism , I believe that it depends on the families and their background, even though its major in Egypt but I personally do not have this in my family, my dad was telling us me and my sisters We are buying a man so we don't care about how much he will pay for u or get u as a gift for marriage!
I found out that most of the mothers in Egypt are controlling their sons and their husbands which is really ridiculous but I can realize that most of the Egyptians currently they go for Moroccan or Russian and polish women! I believe Egyptian men became very weak and not strong enough to marry or handle an Egyptian woman! Because I believe we are still different, we are very independent women, we are strong have dignity, pretty, Pharaohs ; and the most important thing we are so funny, have good sense of humor :D :D xoxoxo.
Donovan post is really helpful. I liked the whole story of how you almost married an Egyptian girl. Sad to know your girlfriend family and dad could not have been patient and waited til you came back within a year. Just as awful that your parents just criticized you and did not really support you much. If you had married her would you have to have switched to the Muslim religion? Your article was very interesting to read. I know traditionally women don't ask men to marry them but he has mentioned several times that he wants to marry me when we're financially stable.
He already got me a promise ring but I refused to accept an engagement ring until we sorted some issues and he told his parents about us. We dated seriously for almost 5 years now, the main challenge is now informing his parents He introduced me officially as his future wife to his brother but not the whole family just yet.
His family is from Beirut, they're all Muslim and when we were just friends I noticed how conservative his mom was. However she's become more flexible with her son throughout the years in terms of going out to parties etc. And her flexibility with him has really given me hope that something could work out since she's the tough one to please Another challenge we face is he has a big circle of Egyptian friends All born and raised in Egypt.
When we argue these friends are always in between trying to tell my bf he can do way better with an Arab or Caucasian gf and that he should forget about me because I'm an "inferior" race plus I'm not even Muslim. Also after hanging out with this circle a lot they have been discouraging him to teach me Arabic but I learn my Arabic from some Egyptian girl friends I have and they don't have much advice to give me. Anyway I want to confront the Egyptian about it because their closed-mindedness is affecting the relationship and I don't know what to do because it would be silly of me to ask him to choose between me and his friends.
Also are Lebanese parents like Egyptian parents? What do Egyptians do if the groom-go-be's friends dislike the bride-to-be? What are the chances of us getting away with this in the West? I have a Lebanese Catholic acquaintance born and raised like my bf here in the West married to a Filipino woman His family has never been to Lebanon to meet the rest of the family on his side though.
I was also wondering if I could be in the same situation with my Muslim bf and how do I avoid or fix mother-son relationship troubles? Did you end up getting married? First, if you are Christian and he asks you to stand in a mosque and speak the prayer.
The prayer is denying Christ as our savior, so right there is you choosing a man over God. Many christian women are told "all you have to do is stand there and raise your hands" which is the same thing as saying it. You are taking part in something against Christ. I am marrying an Algerian man and I made sure that he knew I will be nowhere near that prayer when it is being said.
My fiance's mother tries to have control over things, but he shuts it down very quickly. Be very careful with how he controls you with his faith. Remember men are allowed marrying Christians, but women can not marry a christian man.
This is set this way because women are easily persuaded. Be aware of this. I found my fiance saying specific things and I shut him down very fast. He still is trying to convert. And if you try teaching a muslim man the bible I gotta say this kudos to you for putting up with her family's whole racket. I wouldn't have put up with it. I think the route I would have went is you either come to my country or we're done.
Ain't know way I'd be letting her family make my life miserable. For example no privacy? Men harassing is on a date? Who does that? Like I said I think the key is make them play by your rules not there's. And most likely the only way to do that is if the girl agrees to leave the country. Now having said all that it doesn't mean you treat there family badly.
You should always respect them. Just don't let them run your life. My main concern would be just make sure I don't get in trouble with the law so I don't get kicked out of the country. But other than that the girls parents could kiss my well you get the picture. Yeah its true they are like North Koreans or Chinese people u can say and i say they are like Indian People in Marriage Family and they talk alot like the Indians they are like Indians actually but better and less more cleaner than them but they are so rude i'm wondering how France colonies their country Spain should must colonized their country not France Spanish People talk alot marry with family permission and keeping family in their lifes forever for rude and non-stop headache and hardworking people as well i dont know.
My father is Arabic and my mother is a foreigner. The only thing my father taught me about relationships: "Never try to date Arabic women, you will never get anything from it". I was born in Egypt from European decents father Greek mother French dont look Egyptian but speak it quite fluently, came to Australia when i was 20 went back in my roots are still there!
I am just hoping to get some reply from someone with that description and somehow put you in touch with him and start communicatig can only hope for the best? I'm Arab and Muslim not from Egypt but my bF is we have baby and not married. And our family okay with it I guess just was you luck lol. We are not all the same, you just have to make sure the women what's her intentions if she is after marriage only some family's are like that.
Really interesting! I am a girl from Albania and have 3 moths talking to a egyptian boy. He really looks a devoted person and very family oriented. But many times things get complicated,,, and that's why I ended up reading this article.
In fact I was searching on google about their culture, because I want to understand him more. I wanted to keep my egyptian girlfriend as a guest in a hotel but they rejected it right away and said rooms cannot be shared.. That's a good one. I am interested with an Egyptian girl and your post gave me some idea of their culture and I'm sure it will be helpful for me.
Hi everyone, Thanks Donovan for this interesting post, really enjoyed your honesty and the way you approached your girl was truly decent. To tell you the truth there are few things which are wrong,yes we are considered religious Muslims or Christians, but what you mentioned depends ,first of all on the social background of your girl. This all about traditions which should be flexible according to the situations or the suitor himself.
Yes some families out of fear they ask for certain things , in Islam the dowry is not fixed , but the less the better and the jewelry is just a gift from the husband. My Egyptian girlfriend jus broke up with me because her father told her she had to. He has never met me, I dropped her off home one night after a night out drinking at the bar, her brother got very mad and told her parents about that. I don't understand I love this girl to death, we talked about having kids and getting married, I felt like she was the one.